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Certificate limitations
The Centerline Thrust Limitation, And How To Avoid It
If you take your multi-engine practical test in an aeroplane whose engines sit on the fuselage centreline, your certificate is issued “LIMITED TO CENTER THRUST”. The rule behind it is 14 CFR 61.45(b)(2), and the fix is simple: train and test in a conventional twin.
14 CFR 61.45(b)(2)FAA-S-ACS-7B Appendix 1Avoidable, and removableConventional twin here
61.45(b)(2)the regulation that creates the limitation
2limitations that commonly attach to a multi-engine rating
$5,100our add-on, flown in a conventional twin so neither applies
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The short answer
What is the centerline thrust limitation?
It is a restriction printed on a pilot certificate limiting multi-engine privileges to aeroplanes whose engines are mounted on the fuselage centreline — one pulling and one pushing, like a Cessna Skymaster. A pilot holding it may act as pilot in command of a centreline-thrust twin and of nothing else with two engines.
The regulation that creates it is 14 CFR 61.45(b)(2), and it is worth reading because it explains the logic rather than just the outcome. It says an applicant for a certificate or rating may use an aircraft with operating characteristics that preclude the applicant from performing all of the tasks required for the practical test, but that the applicant's certificate or rating will then be issued with an appropriate limitation.
Apply that to a centreline-thrust twin. Both engines are in line with the fuselage, so losing one produces no meaningful yawing moment. There is no asymmetric thrust to control, so there is no VMC to demonstrate, no critical engine to identify and no engine-out yaw to fly. Those tasks cannot be performed, so they are not tested, so the privileges are restricted to aeroplanes where they do not arise.
It is not a punishment and it is not a mark against the pilot. It is the FAA declining to certify a skill it did not watch you demonstrate, which is exactly what you would want it to do.
The two limitations
Two limitations that attach to multi-engine ratings
Both appear in Appendix 1 of the Commercial Pilot – Airplane ACS (FAA-S-ACS-7B), which carries a task table for removing each one.
| Limitation | How you get it | How it comes off |
|---|---|---|
| LIMITED TO CENTER THRUST | Taking the multi-engine practical test in a twin with both engines on the fuselage centreline, so the asymmetric tasks cannot be performed. Created by 14 CFR 61.45(b)(2). | A further practical test in a conventional twin, covering the tasks in the ACS Appendix 1 table headed Removal of the “Limited to Center Thrust” Limitation. |
| AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE VFR ONLY | Holding an instrument rating and adding a multi-engine class rating without demonstrating the instrument tasks in a multiengine airplane. Your instrument privileges then do not extend to twins. | The tasks in the ACS Appendix 1 table headed Removal of the “Airplane Multiengine VFR Only” Limitation, flown in a multiengine airplane. |
Neither is permanent and neither is unusual. What both have in common is that they are entirely avoidable at the point of training, and awkward to remove afterwards, because removing them means finding an examiner, an aeroplane and a second checkride fee.
Why anyone ends up with it
Who actually gets a centerline thrust limitation?
Three groups, and none of them chose it on purpose. The first is pilots who trained where the sole twin available was a Skymaster or another centreline design, often because it was the least costly twin an operator could keep on line.
The second is military and ex-military pilots and some pilots converting foreign licences, where the aeroplane used for the test happened to be centre-thrust. The third is pilots who took the rating decades ago in an aeroplane that has long since left the fleet and who have never had a reason to look at the back of their certificate.
It matters the moment you want to fly a Seminole, a Duchess, a Baron, a Seneca or anything else with engines on the wings. That is essentially the entire light twin fleet. It also matters for employment, because operators fly conventional twins.
If you are in that position the fix is a training block and a practical test, not a whole new rating. Bring us the certificate and we will tell you what the ACS Appendix 1 table asks for and roughly how many hours it usually takes to be ready for it.
The mechanism
Why a centreline twin cannot demonstrate the asymmetric tasks
Everything difficult about a conventional twin comes from thrust being offset from the centreline. Remove the offset and you remove the syllabus.
1
No yawing moment
Thrust in line with the fuselage produces no moment about the vertical axis when one engine stops. The aeroplane slows down; it does not try to turn.
2
No VMC
14 CFR 1.2 defines VMC as the minimum control speed with the critical engine inoperative. With no asymmetric thrust there is no minimum control speed to demonstrate in the sense the ACS means.
3
No critical engine
The critical engine is the one whose failure most adversely affects performance and handling. On a centreline design neither engine is offset, so the concept does not apply.
4
No identify and verify
The single most drilled sequence in multi-engine training exists because the aeroplane tells you which engine failed by yawing. Without the yaw, the drill has no cue to hang on.
5
The performance loss is still real
This is the part people miss. A centreline twin still loses most of its climb performance on one engine. The FAA Airplane Flying Handbook's statement that losing 50 percent of power reduces climb performance 80 to 90 percent is about power, not about geometry.
6
Which is why the limitation is narrow, not general
You are certified for the aeroplanes where the untested skills are not required. You are not certified for the ones where they are.
Avoiding it
How do you avoid both limitations in the first place?
Train and test in a conventional twin, and fly the instrument tasks while you are in it. That is the whole answer, and it is what happens here by default rather than as an upgrade.
Our Piper Seminole has wing-mounted engines and produces genuine asymmetric thrust, so every task in the ACS can be performed and no centre-thrust limitation attaches. It also has counter-rotating propellers, which means it has no critical engine — that is a different point and it does not create a limitation, because the aeroplane can still demonstrate VMC with either engine at idle.
For the second limitation, the fix is to include the instrument tasks in the rating if you hold an instrument rating. It adds very little to a syllabus that already contains single-engine approaches, and it keeps Airplane Multiengine VFR Only off a certificate you will carry for the rest of your flying life. We do it as standard, inside the $5,100.
If you are shopping for multi-engine training anywhere, this is a question worth asking before you pay: what aeroplane will I take the test in, and will the instrument tasks be flown? The answers determine what is printed on your certificate, and printing is easier than un-printing.
Redbird MCX
Practising the tasks that produce the limitation
The Redbird MCX is full-motion and FAA-approved, and it will fail an engine asymmetrically as many times as you want it to.
Removing a centre-thrust limitation is mostly about becoming fluent in identify-verify-feather. The simulator is where that fluency is least expensive to build. Standalone sessions are $189.
What people say
5.0 ★ · 85 Google reviews
Pilots who came to us to remove a limitation tend to write about the ground school, which is where most of the work actually is.
★
The debrief, not the flight
The compliment that comes up most often in our reviews is not the aeroplane and it is not the ramp. It is that somebody sat down afterwards and drew the yaw on a whiteboard until it made sense.
★
Lessons that actually happen
Eleven instructors and a fleet we own and maintain. On a rating you are trying to finish inside two weeks, a school that cancels twice is the difference between done and half-done.
★
The number does not move
What you enrol at is what you finish at. On a $5,100 add-on that promise is most of the point, and reviewers keep writing about it because it is not universal.
Programmes and prices
Training in a conventional twin
Our multi-engine add-on is $5,100 and is flown in a wing-engined twin, so neither limitation attaches. Limitation-removal training is quoted individually after we have seen your certificate and logbook.
The rating
Multi-Engine Add-On
$5,100 / complete
The whole rating: Seminole time, dual instruction, ground and systems work, engine-out training and checkride preparation, at a price that is fixed when you enrol.
Multi-Engine Discovery Flight
$499 / 60 min
An hour in the Seminole before you commit $5,100 to it. Book it on the product page — an hour in the left seat settles the question faster than any amount of reading.
Discovery Flight For One
$229 / 60 min
A real lesson in a single. You fly the aeroplane, the time is loggable dual instruction, and the full $229 is credited against any programme if you enrol within 24 hours.
Redbird MCX Session
$189 / session
Full-motion, FAA-approved and never cancelled for weather. Engine failures cost nothing here, which is why the first dozen of yours happen on the ground.
Next step
Bring the certificate and we will read the back of it with you
If you hold a centre-thrust or VFR-only limitation, the free consultation is the right first step. We will tell you what the ACS asks for and roughly how long it takes, before anybody talks about money.
Discovery Flight For One
$229
60 minutes · you fly the aircraft · credited in full on enrolment within 24 hours
The multi-engine cluster
Multi-engine rating training at Van NuysThe multi-engine checkrideVMC and engine-out aerodynamicsThe Piper Seminole as a trainerMulti-engine rating requirements
FAQ
Centerline Thrust Limitation Questions
It restricts your multi-engine privileges to aeroplanes with both engines mounted on the fuselage centreline. You may not act as pilot in command of a conventional twin with wing-mounted engines, which is most of the light twin fleet.
14 CFR 61.45(b)(2). It provides that an applicant may use an aircraft with operating characteristics that preclude performing all of the tasks required for the practical test, but that the certificate or rating will then be issued with an appropriate limitation. A centreline twin cannot produce asymmetric thrust, so the VMC and engine-out tasks go untested.
By passing a practical test in a conventional twin covering the tasks in Appendix 1 of the Commercial Pilot – Airplane ACS (FAA-S-ACS-7B), in the table headed Removal of the “Limited to Center Thrust” Limitation. It is a training block and a checkride, not a new rating.
Yes, and it is easy. Train and take the practical test in a conventional twin with wing-mounted engines. Our Piper Seminole is one, which is why no centre-thrust limitation attaches to a rating earned here.
It appears when a pilot who holds an instrument rating adds a multi-engine class rating without demonstrating the instrument tasks in a multiengine airplane, and it means your instrument privileges do not extend to twins. Appendix 1 of FAA-S-ACS-7B contains the removal task table. Flying the instrument tasks during the rating avoids it entirely, and we do that as standard.
No. The Seminole has wing-mounted engines and produces genuine asymmetric thrust, so every ACS task can be performed. Its counter-rotating propellers mean it has no critical engine, which is a separate point and does not create any limitation.
Yes, and badly. The FAA Airplane Flying Handbook's statement that losing 50 percent of power reduces climb performance 80 to 90 percent is about power, not about where the engines are bolted. What a centreline design removes is the control problem, not the performance problem.
It depends entirely on how current you are and how much asymmetric flying you have done, which is why we quote it after looking at a logbook rather than on a web page. The material is the engine-out half of a normal multi-engine rating.
Operators fly conventional twins, so a centre-thrust limitation is a practical obstacle. We make no claims about hiring or employment outcomes; what we can say is that the limitation restricts you out of most of the light twin fleet.
The most familiar example is the Cessna Skymaster, with one engine in the nose and one in the tail. Push-pull designs of that kind are uncommon today, which is part of why the limitation is more often inherited from an old checkride than chosen.
No. 14 CFR 61.63(c)(4) excuses an additional knowledge test for a pilot who already holds an airplane rating at that certificate level, and limitation removal is a practical test matter. There is still an oral element on the day.
At Van Nuys Airport (KVNY), in our Piper Seminole. We are at 7900 Balboa Blvd, Suite 108A, Van Nuys, CA 91406, open 9am to 9pm, seven days a week. Call (818) 290-8249 and bring the certificate.
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I recently had the chance to take my first-ever discovery flight, and it was nothing short of amazing! From the moment I stepped into the cockpit, the...
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It was a great flight! I did a sunset flight and Alex let us fly an awesome. Website was easy to book, and the plane itself was really fun to fly...
FLYING LESSON
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We had a great flying lesson with Ralph and came away with a much better understanding of both the aircraft and the principles of flight. Ralph is a...
KIDS LUXURY FLIGHT
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I got 2 luxury discovery flights for my kids. I wanted them to have the experience of flying. Our instructor Alex was amazing he made sure they feel...
HONEYMOON SURPRISE
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Last minute booking to surprise my wife on our honeymoon. She had no experience with flying and was scared of flying, but Alex was very easygoing and knew...
FULL-MOTION SIM
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Amazing flight school in van nuys airport. I have been a student here for the past few months and i could not be happier. I started doing a lot of...
DISCOVERY FOR TWO
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I booked a Discovery Flight for Two for my girlfriend's birthday and it was the perfect gift for her. She couldn't have been more excited to get to...
SIMULATORS
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Very professional and great airplanes. I love the flight simulators. The pricing is very fair compared to any other flight school
TEEN FIRST LESSON
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We gifted our teenage son his first flying lesson. He was so excited! Alex greeted us and gave a reassuring brief that made us all feel comfortable and at...
FIRST-TIME FLYER
★★★★★
Flying is my husband's hobby and I was incredibly anxious and apprehensive about the discovery flight. However, I felt completely safe and at ease once we...
SAFETY FIRST
★★★★★
Very safety and detail oriented. Pre-flight briefing explained everything there was. To my knowledge, this flight school is exceptional in their ability.
DISCOVERY FLIGHT
★★★★★
I recently had the chance to take my first-ever discovery flight, and it was nothing short of amazing! From the moment I stepped into the cockpit, the...
SUNSET CIRRUS
★★★★★
It was a great flight! I did a sunset flight and Alex let us fly an awesome. Website was easy to book, and the plane itself was really fun to fly...
FLYING LESSON
★★★★★
We had a great flying lesson with Ralph and came away with a much better understanding of both the aircraft and the principles of flight. Ralph is a...
KIDS LUXURY FLIGHT
★★★★★
I got 2 luxury discovery flights for my kids. I wanted them to have the experience of flying. Our instructor Alex was amazing he made sure they feel...
HONEYMOON SURPRISE
★★★★★
Last minute booking to surprise my wife on our honeymoon. She had no experience with flying and was scared of flying, but Alex was very easygoing and knew...
FULL-MOTION SIM
★★★★★
Amazing flight school in van nuys airport. I have been a student here for the past few months and i could not be happier. I started doing a lot of...
DISCOVERY FOR TWO
★★★★★
I booked a Discovery Flight for Two for my girlfriend's birthday and it was the perfect gift for her. She couldn't have been more excited to get to...
SIMULATORS
★★★★★
Very professional and great airplanes. I love the flight simulators. The pricing is very fair compared to any other flight school
TEEN FIRST LESSON
★★★★★
We gifted our teenage son his first flying lesson. He was so excited! Alex greeted us and gave a reassuring brief that made us all feel comfortable and at...
FIRST-TIME FLYER
★★★★★
Flying is my husband's hobby and I was incredibly anxious and apprehensive about the discovery flight. However, I felt completely safe and at ease once we...
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